Runciman Surname One Name Study/DNA project (Goons)
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Robert Runciman

Male Est 1685 - 1781  (~ 43 years)


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  • Name Robert Runciman  [1
    WebIntro 1675  Prestonpans, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  [2

    • The two Robert families, one with children by Janet Sinclair from 1713 (Dirleton) to 1720 (Prestonpans), the other with children to Katharine Begbie are believed to be one and the same Robert, Janet having presumably died in childbirth, or shortly thereafter.
      The timeline is:
      Mar 1720 a son Thomas is born in Prestonpans, father Robert is a gardner, and a witness to the baptism is one James Begbie, weaver.
      Nov 1720 a Robert of Prestonpans marries a Katharine Begbie in Pencaitland
      Feb 1722 a son Richard is born in Prestonpans to this latter couple, father Robert a gardiner, witnesses include a James Begbie weaver
    WebHighlight 1680  [3, 4, 5, 6
    • NB the change of tack re William of Crail's parents.
      From the Runciman DNA project we have a good match between descendants of Thomas married to Alison Grieve, and of William of Crail (and two other lines).
      A tentative paper trail had been constructed between Thomas, William and the Robert married to Janet Sinclair and Katherine Begbie.
      Some of William of Crail's orphaned children were known to have been brought up by a Richard RUNCIMAN living in North Berwick, and there was a baptism of an appropriate Richard to Robert and Katherine (Begbie), the assumption being that William of Crail was the William born to Robert and Janet (Sinclair) in 1717.
      Likewise Thomas born Prestonpans, the son of Robert Runciman and Janet Sinclair, with a brother William, was assumed to be the same Thomas married to Alison Grieve with first known son Robert, living Thornton, Innerwick.
      However, a recent (Oct 2012) closer reading of the papers in the National Archives about the orphaned children showed that Richard was their grandfather.
      Back to the drawing board.
      The working assumption now is that William was the one baptised 1729 to the Richard married to Jennet GOURLAY instead, albeit that this makes William marginally on the young side to have married his first wife by 1748, particularly as she was stated to be 31 when she died in 1753. As Richard and Jennet (GOURLAY) married in 1728, William's baptism in 1729 could be assumed to be shortly after his birth.
      So how are Robert (married to Janet SINCLAIR and Katharine BEGBIE) and Richard married to Jennet GOURLAY connected?
    Born Est 1685  ?Dirleton, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  [1, 7, 8
    Gender Male 
    Reference Number 62530 
    Died Between 1728 and 1781  ?Ormiston, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  [9
    Person ID I62530  Runciman Lineage 1c - Thomas & Alison (GRIEVE) RUNCIMAN
    Last Modified 23 Jun 2014 

    Family 1 Janet Sinclair,   b. Est 1685, ?Dirleton, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. Between Mar 1720 and Nov 1720, Prestonpans, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 35 years) 
    Married Est 1710  ?Dirleton, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  [1, 8, 10
    • eldest known son John bap. 1713
    Children 
     1. John Runseman,   b. Abt Jul 1713, Dirleton, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location
     2. William Runseman,   b. Abt Jun 1717, Saltcoats, Par. of Dirleton, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location
    +3. Thomas Runciman,   b. 07 Mar 1720, Prestonpans, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location
    Last Modified 15 Aug 2017 
    Family ID F23  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

    Family 2 Katharine Begbie,   b. Est 1695, ?Pencaitland, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. Dec 1781, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 86 years) 
    Married 19 Nov 1720  Pencaitland, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  [11, 12
    • entry for Oct 29th reads: "Rbt Runshiman in the parish of prestonpans & Katharine Begbie in this parish gave up their Banns matrimonial to be intimate three foull dyets before the congregation according to order were married Novr 19th 1720"
    Children 
    +1. Richard Runciman,   b. 05 Feb 1722, Prestonpans, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location
     2. Robert Runshiman,   b. Abt Apr 1724, Pencaitland, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location
     3. Kathrin Runchiman,   b. Abt Mar 1728, Ormiston, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location
    Last Modified 15 Aug 2017 
    Family ID F24  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

  • Event Map
    Link to Google MapsWebIntro - 1675 - Prestonpans, East Lothian, Scotland Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsBorn - Est 1685 - ?Dirleton, East Lothian, Scotland Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsMarried - Est 1710 - ?Dirleton, East Lothian, Scotland Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsMarried - 19 Nov 1720 - Pencaitland, East Lothian, Scotland Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsDied - Between 1728 and 1781 - ?Ormiston, East Lothian, Scotland Link to Google Earth
     = Link to Google Earth 

  • Histories
    Time estimates for matching Lineage 1 trees as at Apr 2017
    Time estimates for matching Lineage 1 trees as at Apr 2017
    The attached image is a screenshot from yFull.com (Apr 2017) and shows the branching within the previously assigned "terminal SNP" of I_Y22033 when we only had four BigY tests, one from each line.

    With two additional BigY DNA tests, one from Lineage 1a and one from lineage 1d, yFull created the two sub branches shown.

    ybp = years before present where present = 1950

    It is expected that with another representative from either or each of Lineage 1b and 1c, that a futher sub branch would be created.

    Check out this blog post for further information and links.

  • Sources 
    1. [S102] OPR East Lothian, Scotland RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854, Scotlands People Index, Birth 1717 William s/o Robert RUNSEMAN & Janet SINCLAIR, Dirleton, 705/ 0020 0047, extracted from index Feb 2010.

    2. [S3] RUNCIMAN Analysis, Lorna Henderson, Feb 2010.

    3. [S15] RUNCIMAN DNA Project, Updated Sep 2011.

    4. [S4] RUNCIMAN Conclusions, Lorna Henderson, Apr 2010, updated Nov 2012.

    5. [S3221] EM RUNCIMAN/WISHART/JAMIESON ex Phyllis R, Phyllis RUNCIMAN, Pay-outs to the widows and children of the Crail fishermen drowned on 21st January 1765, from GD/26/12/25 held National Archives of Scotland (NAS), transcr. by Phyllis rcvd Nov 2012.

    6. [S1045] RUNCIMAN Correspondence, H D W, H/stone (& info) William RUNSHEMAN/RUNSYMAN and family, Crail, Fife, from pre 1855 transcriptions, rcvd Jan 2010.

    7. [S102] OPR East Lothian, Scotland RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854, Scotlands People Index, Birth 1703 Robert s/o Andrew RUNCIMAN & Margaret BARTRAM, Whittinghame, 724/ 0010 0214, extracted from index Feb 2010.

    8. [S55] BDM: Scotlands People entries to 1854, Bap. 14 Jun 1717 William s/o RUNSEMAN (gardner in Saltcoats) & Janet SINCLAIR, Dirleton, ELN 705/0020 0046, copy d/loaded Feb 2010.

    9. [S5] Ancestry.com, Bur. 20 Dec 1781 Katherine BEGBIE, relict of Robert RUNCIMAN, gardener Ormiston, from List of Burials excerpted from Register in possession of the Registrar of the Canongate, ancestry collection: Midlothian: Edinburgh - The Commissariot Record of Edinburgh, 1701-1800, extracted Nov 2010.

    10. [S102] OPR East Lothian, Scotland RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854, Scotlands People Index, Birth/Bap.? 26 Jul 1713 John s/o RUNSEMAN & Janet SINCLAIR, Dirleton, 705/ 0020 0037, extracted from index Feb 2010.

    11. [S102] OPR East Lothian, Scotland RUNCIMAN Births 1538-1854, Scotlands People Index, Birth (Bap?) 7 Feb 1722 Richard s/o Robert RUNSIMAN & Catharine BEGBIE, Prestonpans, 718/ 0040 0089, extracted from index Feb 2010.

    12. [S55] BDM: Scotlands People entries to 1854, Marr. 19 Nov 1720 Robert RUNSHIMAN (Prestonpans) & Katharine BEGBIE, Pencaitland, 716/0020 0276, copy d/loaded Feb 2010.