Runciman Surname One Name Study/DNA project (Goons)
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Robert Runciman

Male Abt 1794 - 1869  (~ 75 years)


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  • Name Robert Runciman  [1, 2
    Born Abt 1794  Dunbar, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  [3, 4
    • (not immediately obvious in OPRs)
    Gender Male 
    Reference Number 53262 
    Died 05 May 1869  East Linton, Par. of Prestonkirk, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  [3
    • cert. shows Robert as 75, labourer, widower of Agnes KING, s/o Thomas, labourer, dec'd, (no mother shown); d. 6:30am of pericarditis (certified). Inf. son David; Reg. 6th, East Linton
    Person ID I53262  Runciman Lineage 1d - Meikle Pinkerton
    Last Modified 16 May 2012 

    Father Thomas Runciman,   b. Abt Jul 1762, Dunbar, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. Between 1841 and 1851, ?Belhaven, Dunbar Burgh, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 78 years) 
    Mother Jean Simpson,   b. Between 1756 and 1761, ?Dunbar, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. Between 1841 and 1851, ?Belhaven, Dunbar Burgh, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 85 years) 
    Married 07 Jun 1783  Haddington, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  [5, 6, 7
    • entry reads: Thos Runciman of the Parish of Dunbar Taylor & Jean Simpson same parish were married at Haddington on the 7th June 1783 (only RUNCIMAN/SIMPSON marr. in SctP is Thomas/Jean 1783 Dunbar)
    Census 1841  Belhaven, Dunbar Burgh, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  [8
    • RUNCIMAN: Thos 80 labourer; Jane 80 both b ELN (two doors away were Peter and Christina REDPATH and nearby a WALLACE and PAXTON)
    Notes 
    • Does a tailor become a hind? Are there two families here or one?
      With the differences in occupation I had doubts about my identification of these family connections, however "reasonable" they seemed when I first made them.
      My answer is now yes, as at least the son of a taylor does indeed become a hind/land steward. I had the answer all along, the death cert. of son John clearly shows his father (John married to Marion Weatherly) as a land steward.

      The tailor connection:
      1783: Thomas Runciman and Jean Simpson marry in Haddington, Thomas a taylor, (recorded in the Dunbar OPR)
      1784: John, son of Thomas and Jean (Simpson), taylor at Broxburn born/baptised
      This John is linked to the one married to May/Marion Weatherly through the latter 's marriage which gives John's father as Thomas, albeit with no occupations listed for either father or son.
      An earlier Thomas was a tailor, eg 1770 bap. Alexander s/o Thomas and Barbara Wallis - which latter surname features as a witness somewhere (yet to be refound)

      The farming connections (which may or may not indicate a different family despite the same wife's names):
      1798: at Crawhill: a son George born to Thomas a hind.
      1808 Isabella born to John and May (Weatherly) which may be the link crossing the boundary between tailor Thomas and hind Thomas.
      1871 death of John son of John and Marion (Weatherly) in Edinburgh, father John shown as a land steward, deceased.

      1869 Robert (married to Agnes King) is linked because his death cert states his father as Thomas, ag labourer, but mother not named
      1885 Thomas (married to Mary Redpath) is linked because his death cert states his parents as Thomas, general labourer, and Jane, albeit without a surname for Jane.

      Alexander (married to Joan Manderson) is linked to farming Thomas by naming pattern of his children, and because a Thomas, hind was witness to several of his children's baptisms, at Mickle Pinkerton, which place features in several earlier entries in the Dunbar OPRs, eg birth of George 1734 to Thomas and Helen (Stevensone).

      Alexander, possibly this one, is linked as witness to marriage of John and Marion Weatherly at Oldhamstocks (banns Innerwick where father Thomas was cautioner for the groom)

      Once Alexander is linked in, this also links in the George married to Janet Darling, as their respective children Agnes and George are documented on their 1861 marriage cert as first cousins.
      With large gaps in the known children for George and Janet there was room to fit in a son Thomas, who has now been found (died Edinburgh 1877) to add naming pattern into the evidence for the prosecution

      Until I found the Crawhill connection I was coming to the conclusion that there were two families, but even with the Crawhill connection between Alexander's and John's families, it still isn't really "proof" that they are one family but could be indicative of two Johns, one son of the tailor, the other married to May Weatherly.

      Casting doubt on all the above however is the current dna evidence (3 lines tested as at Oct 2011: 1 matches lineage 1, the other two don't match each other or lineage 1). More representatives wanted!
      Jun 2014 update: 3 lines tested with 4 kits: the fourth kit, another paper trail descendant of Thomas & Mary (REDPATH) RUNCIMAN, does match lineage 1. [9, 10, 11]
    Family ID F5  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

    Family Agnes King,   b. Abt 1792, Oldhamstocks, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. Between 1851 and 1869, ?Thurston Mains, Par. of Innerwick, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 59 years) 
    Married 25 Sep 1813  Dunbar, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  [1, 12, 13, 14
    • (extracted IGI batch 18th, Edin; patron submission says Dunbar 25th, confirmed by SctP index search)
    Census 1841  Pleasants, Par. of Spott, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  [15
    • RUNCIMAN: Robert 45 ag lab; Agnas 45 both b ELN; Assumed Children: Gunet (Janet assumed) 20, Thomas 20 ag lab, David 15 ag lab, Olander (Alexander assumed) 11, William 9, Agnes 7 All b ELN; Assumed grdchild Janel (?James) HENDERSON 6 mos (male) b ELN
    Census 1851  Thurston Mains, Par. of Innerwick, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  [4
    • RUNCIMAN: Robert 48 ag lab b Dunbar, HAD; wife Agnes 59 b Oldhamstocks, HAD; Children: William 18, Agnes 15 both ag labs b Spott, HAD
    Children 
     1. John Runciman,   b. 26 Nov 1816, Cockburnspath, Berwickshire, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 19 Mar 1880, Hope Cres, Edinburgh, Dist of St Andrew, Midlothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 63 years)
     2. Janet Runciman,   b. 28 Nov 1818, Cockburnspath, Berwickshire, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location
     3. Thomas Runciman,   b. 30 Dec 1821, Cockburnspath, Berwickshire, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 09 Feb 1866, Long Newton, Par. of Yester, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 44 years)
     4. Robert Runciman,   b. 18 Dec 1823, Cockburnspath, Berwickshire, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 1887, Polwarth, Berwickshire, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 63 years)
     5. David Runciman,   b. 15 Oct 1826, Cockburnspath, Berwickshire, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. Aft 1869, ?East Linton, Par. of Prestonkirk, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age > 44 years)
     6. Alexander Runciman,   b. Abt 1829, Spott, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. Between 1871 and 1881, ?Dunbar, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 42 years)
     7. William Runciman,   b. Abt 1832, Spott, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. Aft 1901, ?Much Woolton, Dist of Prescot, Lancashire, England Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 70 years)
     8. Agnes Runciman,   b. Abt 1834, Spott, East Lothian, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location
    Last Modified 7 Mar 2016 
    Family ID F28  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

  • Event Map
    Link to Google MapsBorn - Abt 1794 - Dunbar, East Lothian, Scotland Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsMarried - 25 Sep 1813 - Dunbar, East Lothian, Scotland Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsCensus - 1841 - Pleasants, Par. of Spott, East Lothian, Scotland Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsCensus - 1851 - Thurston Mains, Par. of Innerwick, East Lothian, Scotland Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsDied - 05 May 1869 - East Linton, Par. of Prestonkirk, East Lothian, Scotland Link to Google Earth
     = Link to Google Earth 

  • Histories
    DNA Wanted
    DNA Wanted
    The RUNCIMAN Surnames DNA Project would love to hear from any DNA tested descendants of the attached lineages in particular.
    Direct male line RUNCIMAN (or variant surname) for yDNA testing (at least 37 markers but preferably 67)
    Any descendant for autosomal DNA testing: FamilyTreeDNA's FamilyFinder test, ancestry or 23andme's DNA test, provided the results can be compared at GEDMatch.com

  • Notes 
    • with a possible first son John, even though Robert's dth cert says his father was Thomas, I would normally be looking for a John having children in the right time/place but candidates are thin on the ground.
      All of which makes one look at the possible gap between marriage and "first" son John's birth and hope that a Thomas fitted in there.
      Circumstantial evidence (and some convincing from Frank) strongly indicates that Robert is related to the Alexander married to Joan MANDERSON.
      Which, when combined with a death cert. saying his father is a Thomas, is sufficient, for now, to place him there.
      We await a dna participant for this line to clinch the id.
      (The circumstantial evidence is that in the 1861 census, Robert's son David has an "aunt-in-law" Margaret MANDERSON with him.
      Frank's view of this is that an uncle's wife's sister might qualify for that title (as well as Margaret being his wife Mary SKIRVEN's aunt), but I suspect she earned her title simply because she is his wife's aunt (see 1851 census as well). [3, 16, 17]
    • Runciman-60 [18]

  • Sources 
    1. [S56] BDM: Scotlands People certs from 1855, Dth 9 Feb 1866 Thomas s/o Robert RUNCIMAN & Agnes KING, reg. Yester, ELN, 725/00 Pg 2 #2, copy d/loaded Mar 2010.

    2. [S203] Census: 1851 Scotland via Ancestry, (1851), Yester, ELN Par 725 ED 3 Pg 3 Sched 7, hsehold of John & Margaret RUNCIMAN (indexed on ancestry as PURSIMAR), extracted Jan 2008.

    3. [S56] BDM: Scotlands People certs from 1855, Dth 5 May 1869 Robert s/o Thomas RUNCIMAN, East Linton, Par. of Prestonkirk, County of Haddington, (ELN), copy d/loaded Mar 2010.

    4. [S203] Census: 1851 Scotland via Ancestry, (1851), Innerwick, ELN Par. 711 ED 3 Pg 19 Sched 22 hsehold of Robert & Agnes RUNCIMAN, extracted Mar 2010.

    5. [S103] OPR East Lothian SctP RUNCIMAN Marriages 1538-1854, Scotlands People Index, (1538-1854), Marr. 7 Jun 1783 Thomas RUNCIMAN & Jean SIMPSON, Dunbar, 706/ 0050 0071, extracted from index Feb 2010.

    6. [S55] BDM: Scotlands People entries to 1854, Marr. 7 Jun 1783 Thomas RUNCIMAN (taylor) & Jean SIMPSON, both of Par. of Dunbar, married Haddington, in Dunbar, East Lothian, 706/ 0050 0071, copy d/loaded Apr 2010.

    7. [S56] BDM: Scotlands People certs from 1855, Dth 3 Dec 1885 Thomas s/o Thomas & Jane RUNCIMAN, aged 99 yrs 11 mths, d. Carincross, Coldingham, Berwickshire, 732/01 0044, copy d/loaded Feb 2010.

    8. [S201] Census: 1841 Scotland via Ancestry, (1841), Belhaven, Par. of Dunbar, ELN Par. 706 ED 8 Pg 9, hsehold of Thos & Jane RUNCIMAN, extracted Jun 2010.

    9. [S3] RUNCIMAN Analysis, Lorna Henderson, Apr 2010.

    10. [S56] BDM: Scotlands People certs from 1855, Dth 1871 John RUNCIMAN, Dist 685/2 Pg 102 #304, Edinburgh St Andrew, MLN, copy d/loaded Apr 2007.

    11. [S15] RUNCIMAN DNA Project, Oct 2011.

    12. [S1596] IGI: Online searches, Marr. 18 Sep 1813 Robert RUNCIMAN & Agnes KING, batch M119883, St Cuthberts, Edin, Midlothian, extracted Mar 2010.

    13. [S1596] IGI: Online searches, Marr. 25 Sep 1813 Robert RUNCIMAN & Agnes KING, patron submission batch 6934509 sheed 37 srce call 0538286 Dunbar, East Lothian, extracted Mar 2010.

    14. [S103] OPR East Lothian SctP RUNCIMAN Marriages 1538-1854, Scotlands People Index, (1538-1854), Marr. 25 Sep 1813 Robert RUNCIMAN & Agnes KING, Dunbar, East Lothian, 706/ 0050 0215, extracted from index Mar 2010.

    15. [S201] Census: 1841 Scotland via Ancestry, (1841), Spott, ELN Par. 720 ED 2 Pg 4, hsehold of Robert & Agnas RUNCIMAN, extracted Mar 2010.

    16. [S3] RUNCIMAN Analysis, Lorna Henderson, Mar 2010.

    17. [S205] Census: 1861 Scotland via Ancestry, (1861), Thornton Loch, Innerwick, ELN Reg. 711 ED 2 Pg 9 Sched 36, hsehold of David & Mary RUNCIMAN, extracted Jun 2010.

    18. [S3217] WikiTree, Oct-11.